GOD and Jesus define a very delicate balance in the bible where: GOD loves you unconditionally, God made sex for Man and woman, GOD gave humans free will, and GOD commanded us not to kill. The ‘Christian Right’ and ‘Christian Left’ will have you believe that the Bible says all sorts of stuff about homosexuality and abortion…But what is GOD really saying. Is He homophobic or is He Anti-choice. In this message we will clearly present that GOD loves everyone despite their sin but humans have learned to judge each other. Its our judgments that keep people from finding the real GOD.
The Big Idea
We can’t judge each other’s sins, we must love and bear with each other
God's View
Leviticus 18:22 ’Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder.
Mathew 7:1-5 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in someone else's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from the other person's eye.
John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
Questions
- Why do we as humans judge each other?
- What does John 13:35 mean to you? How does it tell you to live your life?
- Is homosexuality or Homophobia sin?
- Is God Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?
- How can we love someone we know is living in sin?
8 comments:
Rather than John 13:35, I'd rather look at the quote from Leviticus that you included. A lot of damage has been done by that verse, and its mirror.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
If you go back to the source material, in Ancient Hebrew, you'll find that the verb used on the "mankind" side of the equation is shakab, and the one used for "womankind" is mishkab. And shakab, in its sexual sense, is used when you are talking about forcible sex (such as, say, rape), or any sex against the will of the victim.
For example, shakab is also the word used in Genesis 34:2, when Shechem defiles Hamor the Hivite; and in 2 Samuel 13:14 - "...but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her." And in Isaiah 13:16 - "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." It's even used in Exodus 22:19, "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death."
There are references to consensual sex in the Bible, but none of them, if you look at the source material (before the translation errors crept in) use the word shakab. So the correct translation of the passages from Leviticus is an exhortation against homosexual rape: "Thou shalt not force sexual congress on a man, as (or instead of) with a woman."
Personally, I prefer the Word of God over the Mistranslation of God. Simply because you happen to disapprove of homosexuality, you shouldn't push your own prejudices as the teachings of the Lord.
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." (Matthew 15:9).
Hey Cynic. Interesting point. I would challenge your definition of 'lie' being the verb you are referring to, you are right it is from the root shakab. Check Strong's reference H7901. You can find it here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7901&t=KJV.
Thanks for your comment. Check back tomorrow for the video too.
You would challenge my definition? I'm hurt! Hurt, I tell you!
Shakab occurs 213 times in 194 verses of the Old Testament, so we have plenty of context from which to draw a closer definition of the term. If you look through each of these verses, you'll find that in 101 instances shakab meant to go to bed, or to sleep, in the most innocuous sense. In 51 instances, shakab means to "sleep with the fathers," in the "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes" sense.
In only one instance does shakab have a sexual context where the use is not non-consensual (and that is only because it's neutral, and context can't be applied): Leviticus 15:18, "When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening."
In 52 instances (all of the sexual instances, save that one) the term shakab is used to describe a sexual encounter typified by deceit or force.
Hi Cynic...again thanks for the input. What's your reference for your statements? BTW we've had some issue uploading the video, so its a bit late. I apologize.
The original research was conducted by Miss Poppy Dixon, on her blog Adult Christianity. I've been keeping myself entertained for the last week or so spreading the word (a summary can be found here)
Oh, incidentally, "4. Is God Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?"
Gee, I dunno -- it seems like it says that it's better to be aborted in the womb than to live an unhappy or wicked life. That sounds kind of pro-choice to me...
Cursed be the day I was born! the day when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed! Cursed be the man who brought the news to my father, "A son is born to you," making him very glad. Let that man be like the cities which the Lord overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave, and her womb for ever great.. Why did I come forth from the womb to see toil and sorrow, and spend my days in shame? (Jeremiah 20:14-18)
Or why was I not as a hidden untimely birth, as infants that never see the light? There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. There the prisoners are at ease together; they hear not the voice of the taskmaster. The small and the great are there, and the slave is free from his master. (Job 3:16-19)
If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but he does not enjoy life's good things, and also has no burial, I say that an untimely birth is better off than he. For it comes into vanity and goes into darkness, and in darkness its name is covered; moreover it has not seen the sun or known anything; yet it finds rest rather than he. (Ecclesiastes 6:3-5)
Hmm ... the Devil is a liar!
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Luke 8:12
Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
Job 24:14
When daylight is gone, the murderer rises up and kills the poor and needy; in the night he steals forth like a thief.
John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.
Jeremiah, a prophet of God and Job, a most righteous man, were both crying out in their grief about their circumstances. They questioned why God would allow them to go through such a down time and in their sadness, questioned why they were born.
The bible clearly states "thou shall not kill" - that means on any level. (Genesis 20:13).
The forces of darkness don't like to hear the truth no matter how plain it is. They want to steal the truth once it has penetrated the hearts of those that hear it to keep them in darkness (again Luke 8:12). When you take anything out of context, you can make it appear as though it is the truth.
OK, Seer, calm down a little. I'm not clear what your point is, but I'll assume you're arguing against me, saying that I'm taking things out of context.
OK, they were sad, so they're allowed to wish to have been aborted? Not just "never have been born," the wording is pretty clear there. "because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave."
"The bible clearly states "thou shall not kill" - that means on any level. (Genesis 20:13)."
Well, if we're going to exchange Bible verses, what about Number 5:19? And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain [shakab] with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse
First, that's another use of shakab-as-rape: "...If no man have shakab with thee," is contrasted with her willingly having sex with a man not her husband. If it is suspected that a woman has been raped, or had an adulterous affair, she will be forced to drink the "bitter water" (made from holy water and the sweepings of the church floor), which, it was believed, would make her abort.
Ecclesiastes 6:3-5: If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things, and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, "Better the miscarriage than he, for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity. It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he."
Solomon is making the point that it is sometimes better to end a pregnancy prematurely than to allow it to continue into a miserable life.
But then we have Exodus 21:22-25: And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
It states right there that abortion isn't a capital crime, it's a civil matter - you only pay a fine. It's the other damage, to the mother (not, you'll notice, the fetus), that can get the abuser punished.
In Leviticus 27:6 a monetary value was placed on children, but not until they reached one month old (any younger had no value). Likewise, in Numbers 3:15 a census was commanded, but the Jews were told only to count those one month old and above - anything less, particularly a fetus, was not counted as a human person.
In Genesis 38:24, we read about a pregnant woman condemned to death by burning. Though the leaders of Israel knew the woman was carrying a fetus, this was not taken into consideration. If indeed the Jews, and the God who instructed them, believed the fetus to be an equal human person to the mother, then why would they let the fetus die for the mother's crimes?
For that matter, "thou shalt not kill?" The Bible is full of people being killed for really minor things. In 2 Kings 2:22-24, we have 42 kids ripped apart for making fun of a bald prophet. "...as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, 'Go up, you baldhead; go up you baldhead!' When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number."
Your arguments don't stand up to a real look at the Scriptures.
("Ha!" he says, "Your Biblical kung-fu is weak, and no match for mine!")
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